The Grand Narrative

Did Eve Have an S-line? Women as Walking Alphabets in South Korea

yoon-eun-hye-윤은혜-as-a-korean-eveAlthough a good 99.99% of sexual encounters are done for purposes other than reproduction these days, people do still tend to find the most fertile members of the opposite sex the most attractive, women, for instance, usually judging men by their faces much more than men do of women’s,  as “testosterone levels are reflected in the face, and who is seen as a one-night stand and who as a potential husband depends in part on this physical feature.” In contrast, men tend – and I stress “tend” – to be drawn to women with hourglass figures, or to be more precise those with large breasts and a low (0.7) waist-hip ratio, almost certainly because women who possess that combination are 30% more fertile than those with other body shapes. But given that the hows and whys of sexual attraction are one of if not the major preoccupation of the human race though, then you might have expected that that would have been known well before 2004!

Regardless, while I’m not for an instant saying that the majority of us who lack “reproductively maximal” body features can’t or shouldn’t be considered sexually attractive (at least to each other!), there are still some intrinsic human physiological features to the phenomenon that it would be specious of us to deny. But these are quite unlike the skinny body ideals for Korean women today, which exist to the extent that and/or despite the fact that Korean women are already among the least obese groups of women in the world, and this disparity deserves further investigation.

Which I’ve been doing since at least April last year, but this post is not a simple rehashing of points made earlier. Rather, because I used this detail of a woman with an hourglass figure from William-Adolphe Bouguereau’s The Birth of Venus (1879) to illustrate one point there, then naturally I was drawn to the above juxtaposition of Korean actress Yoon Eun-hye (윤은혜) and Albrecht Dürer’s Adam and Eve (1507) in an article on the front page of Yahoo! Korea on Tuesday: like it says, they bear an uncanny resemblance, although *cough* I hope you appreciate the time and effort that went into my crafting a much better version of the original image to demonstrate that then what was available there (sources: left, right). As per usual for mainstream Korean portal sites though, which tend to be much more tabloidish than their English counterparts, the “article” had my wife spluttering at its lack of actual news and sheer incomprehensibility at times, but at least in the translating of it it did ultimately prove to be the catalyst for some follow-up thoughts about recent developments in Korean women’s body ideals, as I’ll explain. First the translation itself though, which I’ve put together into paragraphs for the sake of easier reading in English (Koreans tend to write line by line), and which I want to stress that you shouldn’t shoot the messenger for(!):

스타매력 재발견, 고은아 ‘가슴’-윤은혜 ‘어깨’ 최고

The Rediscovery of Stars’ Beauty

Go Eun-ah’s Breasts and Yun Eun-hye’s Shoulders are the Best

각종 시상식장의 레드카펫은 여배우들에게 좀더 특별하다. 숨겨둔 자신만의 매력을 한껏 과시할 수 있는 기회가 되기 때문이다. 덕분에 팬들은 그녀들의 아름다움에 숨은 매력까지 엿볼 수 있다. 얼마 전 열린 제45회 백상예술대상 시상식에서 고정된 이미지를 깨고 새로운 매력을 보여준 여배우가 있었다. 바로 고은아와 윤은혜이다..두 배우 모두 귀엽고 상큼한 이미지로 그동안 팬들의 사랑을 받아왔다. 하지만 어린 나이임에도 성숙한 상체 라인을 가진 고은아는 지금껏 풋풋했던 이미지를 벗고 ‘제2의 김혜수’라는 찬사를 받았다. 또 윤은혜는 쉽게 찾아볼 수 없었던 둥근 어깨 라인을 드러내 여성스러운 면모를 부각시켰다.

go-eun-ah-breasts-고은아-왕가슴As they are great opportunities to show off previously their previously hidden confidence and beauty, actresses look more and more glamorous on the red carpet at award ceremonies, and fans are eager to get a peek at their idols. A few days ago at the 45th Paeksang Arts Awards many actresses took the opportunity to throw off their old, established images and show off new sides to themselves, particularly Go Eun-ah (right, source) and Yoon Eun-hye. Both were previously well known and popular for their cute and sweet images, but despite her youth Go Eun-ah has become quite buxom, and has been described as the second Kim Hye-su. Also on this occasion, Yoon Eun-hye showed her new womanly side by revealing her round shoulders for the first time.

백상예술대상 레드카펫을 밟은 고은아는 가슴이 깊게 파인 옐로우 슬리브리스 드레스로 플래시 세레를 받았다. 산뜻한 컬러와 과감한 가슴 노출로 다소 쌀쌀한 날씨에도 불구하고 봄의 여신으로 매력을 뽐냈다. 무엇보다 기존 10대 이미지를 과감하게 벗어 던진 그녀는 이제 여성미와 섹시미를 겸비한 여배우로 신고식을 치른 셈이다.

Once Go Eun-ah stepped onto the red carpet she was seen to be wearing a very low-cut sleeveless dress, and was instantly bathed in the flashlights of hundreds of cameras. The bright dress and her boldness in wearing something so revealing, despite the slightly chilly weather, made her seem almost goddess-like. Moreover, she has completely lost her image of a teenager, and has made a big splash as a beautiful and sexy female actress.

고은아의 가장 큰 매력은 레드카펫의 여왕이라 불리며 늘 섹시하고 파격적인 의상으로 화제를 불러 일으킨 대한민국 대표 섹시스타 김혜수를 연상케 하는 상체 라인이다. C 컵 이상의 풍만한 가슴과 글래머러스한 몸매, 그럼에도 선명하게 도드라지는 쇄골이 김혜수와 매우 닮았다. 이는 한국에서 쉽게 찾아볼 수 없었던 우월한 가슴라인으로 ‘제2의 김혜수’라는 극찬이 아깝지 않을 정도. 게다가 고은아는 키 171cm로 170cm의 김혜수에 뒤지지 않는 신체조건을 가졌다. 압구정 에비뉴 성형외과 이백권 원장은 “김혜수와 고은아의 공통점은 넓은 어깨와 C컵 이상의 풍만한 가슴선 등 건강하고 서구적인 체형이다”며 “속옷의 종류에 따라 차이가 있겠지만 두 사람 모두 상부가 불룩한 속칭 윗볼록이 있는 가슴을 가지고 있다”고 말했다.

kim-hye-su-김혜수-breasts-가슴

Go Eun-ah’s most attractive point is her breasts, which remind people of Korean sex-symbol Kim Hye-su (left, source), who regularly wears very revealing clothes at awards ceremonies and is known as the “Queen of the Red Carpet.” Despite the large size of their busts, you can distinctly see both collarbones, and they’re even the same height too. Such a combination is not often found among Korean women, and so because this is so rare people are not embarrassed to regularly praise her as the second Kim Hye-soo. According to Apgujeong Avenue cosmetic surgeon Lee Baek-gwon, “Kim Hye-su and Go Eun-ah’s points in common are their high collarbones, their C-cup (or bigger) breasts, and their healthy Western body shape” and “although they may wear different brands of underwear, they will both be for women who are top-heavy.”

또 다른 화제의 인물 윤은혜는 그 동안 드라마 ‘커피프린스 1호점’과 ‘궁’ 등에서 보여준 중성적이고 발랄한 모습과 다르게 푸른 색 미니 튜브탑을 통해 어깨라인과 각선미를 드러내면서 보다 여성스러운 모습을 과시했다. 특히 윤은혜의 둥근 어깨라인은 16세기 유화 ‘아담과 이브’(알브레히트 뒤러)에 나오는 이브의 어깨라인과 닮아 고전적인 여성미를 보여주었다는 평이다. 이브 이외에 ‘비너스의 탄생’(산드로 보티첼리)에서 비너스의 어깨라인은 물론 15-16세기 명화 속에 등장하는 아름다운 여성들의 체형적 특징 중 하나인 어깨가 매우 흡사해 고전적인 여성의 아름다움을 느끼게 한다. 압구정 에비뉴 성형외과 이백권 원장은 “승모근이 발달한 윤은혜의 어깨는 약간 좁으면서 전체적으로 둥근 느낌을 주며 통통해 보여 여성스러운 느낌을 준다”며 “16세기 서구에서는 이런 곡선이 잘 살려진 몸매를 아름다운 여성의 표준으로 보았다”고 설명했다. 전체적으로 통통하면서 힙 등에 보기 좋게 살집이 있는 윤은혜의 몸매가 서양의 고전적인 아름다움에 가깝다는 것이다. 기존 드라마에서 보여주지 않았던 섹시하거나 우아한 여성스러운 몸매를 백상예술대상 레드카펫에서 공개한 고은아와 윤은혜의 다음 번 레드카펫이 사뭇 기대된다.

botticelli-the-birth-of-venus

An actress also getting attention recently is Yoon Eun-hye, who has been in the dramas “The First Shop of Coffee Prince” and “Princess Hours” but who looked rather androgynous and/or tomboyish in both,  showed off her shoulders and legs in a blue mini tube top. Especially, Yoon Eun-hye’s round shoulders were very similar to Eve’s in a 16th Century oil painting “Adam and Eve” by Albrecht Dürer, a well-known symbol with which to evaluate female beauty. Apart from Eve, other symbols used as such have been Venus in “The Birth of Venus” by Sandro Botticelli (1482, above), and she has a remarkable resemblance to the former. Lee Baek-gwon says “On the whole, while the muscle development around Yoon Eun-hye’s shoulders is a little narrow, its roundness give her a very feminine and woman-like appearance” and also that “in the West in the 16th Century, this type of well-developed curve was considered the beauty standard”. And so while a little chubby, her hips and so on are very close to that standard. These two women didn’t previously show this sexy side to themselves in the dramas they appeared in, but people now have high expectations for their next appearance on the red carpet! (finish)

yoon-eun-hye-윤은혜-x-line-photoshopped-amore-pacifc-advertisement

Again, this is but one tabloidish news article, so despite having written things like this in the past, even I am not going to make much of repeated references to, say, the supposed virtues of attaining Western body ideals. As the links in report #12 of this post demonstrate though, the absurd notion that someone like Yoon Eun-hye is even slightly chubby would by no means be confined to the author of this article, to which I would add reflect an obsession about judging women on their appearances that could not even be deflected by being the first Korean to go into space either (see here and here).

Hence the final form of Eun-hye’s advertisement for the Korean cosmetics company Amore Pacific above for instance (source), which you don’t need me to tell you has been heavily photoshopped, and to my mind to an extent that goes well beyond the “normal” – but still often objectionable – touching up of and resizing of women’s bodies in advertisements that is as old as the industry itself (see here, here, and here, and I also include a Levi’s Jeans advertisement of hers below {source} with which to compare actual photos of her with). But whereas you and I might see a grotesque, almost ant-like parody of a woman, and certainly an image worthy of inclusion in the website PhotoshopDisasters, in Korea it actually spawned a (mercifully) brief mania for “X-line” figures, in addition to those already for “S-lines” and “V-lines” and so on.

yoon-eun-hye-윤은혜-photoshopped-jeans-advertisement-sausage-legs-ass-엉덩이

This got me thinking. One Korean word in the above article – 각선미 – came out in my very old and cheap electronic dictionary as – I kid you not – “the beauty of leg lines,” but which my wife pointed out to me is just plain wrong: “the beauty of the (whole) body” would be a more accurate, if still awkward, translation. Given that Korean portal site Naver’s dictionary still gives the first translation though, then it may actually be my wife that is mistaken, but then that’s not the point, which is that “the beauty of leg-lines” is essentially an arbitrary choice. Ultimately, probably only one person was responsible for it, and he or she choose that rather than, say, “curvaceous legs,” or “shapely legs”. Why?

One clue is that this is by no means an isolated case. For at the back of the very first Korean dictionary I owned, among a list of standard political terms I was surprised to see the term “fusion government” in place of the term “coalition government” that you and I would be more familiar with. Yes sure, that Korean term does indeed have a certain logic to it, but then unfortunately it’s not actually English; instead, because the word “fusion” was (and still is) very popular in Korea, apparently the makers of the dictionary felt that that popularity should be reflected in their translations too, regardless of the trifling fact that at the very least fluent English speakers would have to pause for a moment to figure out what was being talked about.

I could provide many more examples like that off the top of my head, but you get the drift: someone chose “the beauty of leg lines” because the term “lines” was (and clearly still is) in vogue as a means to describe women’s bodies. But again, why? What intrinsic advantage does the term “S-line,” say, have over the previous “jook-jook bbang-bbang” (쭉쭉빵빵) that was prevalent in the 1990s, “jook” meaning “long and straight” and “bbang” meaning bread, hence a tall woman with a loaf of bread at her front symbolizing her breasts and another behind her symbolizing her buttocks? Was it because that term was too, well…corny?

Regardless, I should point out that I’m not so uptight as to argue that the use of the term S-line (or any others) is sexist or wrong in itself, or even more so than, say, the English “T&A,” and even though personally I don’t often use terms like that even with my male friends, that doesn’t mean I don’t still talk about those body parts with them any more or less than every other heterosexual male, nor that we don’t all assess the attractiveness of literally every woman that passes by us based on those.

Which provided it’s not overdone, is all perfectly healthy and good.  But this Korean propensity to the alphabetization of women is something else entirely, almost sinister in it’s proliferation and the genuine impacts it has on the way people think and behave. I think that the blogger JavaBeans puts this best, in a comment that I’ve already quoted before and undoubtedly will quote again:

The “W” originates from the stupid Korean fixation with naming body parts after letters in the English alphabet. It’s a great pet peeve of mine, and I have half a mind to go off on an extended rant about how the stupid Korean media fetish with physical beauty, coupled with their belief in Anglicization-as-legitimization, is responsible for an inane, ridiculous practice.

U-line (lower back), V-line (face/chin), S-line (tits-n-ass), M-line (“male” line, aka the male physique), and now W-line (boobs). (Yeah, what about my Q-line, huh? Or the oft-ignored K-line, whatever that may be? Suck it, failed wordsmiths.) And how while this practice is seemingly frivolous on the surface, it actually belies much more pernicious trends in society at large, when you have celebrities vocally espousing their alphabet-lines and therefore actually objectifying themselves as a conglomeration of “perfect” body parts rather than as whole, genuine people. You wanna know why plastic surgery is such a big deal in Korea, why actresses don’t eat, why there’s an obsession with thin? It’s because we’re all just Latin letters waiting to be objectified as a beauty ideal rather than living, breathing people with flesh on our bones and brains in our heads.

korean-womans-breast-enlargement-before-after-왕가슴

Through having written this *cough* light post, now I really do want to trace the first occurrences of all the terms above someday, as it’ll be interesting learning how they developed from their (presumably) humble origins, into rapidly spreading memes, and then, hell, into Koreans’ worldviews? No, that last is probably reading too much into it. Regardless of how to describe their effect on the Korean psyche today though, accounting for that development before doing the research may be nigh impossible, but if pushed to speculate, my first question would be if there is somehow some intrinsic feature to the Korean language itself that predisposes Koreans to think of women’s bodies in terms of lines? Can anyone with better Korean skills than myself can confirm or deny this? Alternatively, perhaps it’s somehow related to philosophical, Neo-Confucian notions of the female body, and perhaps even to geomancy also, historically very popular in Korea, and so much so that the Japanese deliberately placed important symbols of colonial power over sacred Korean geomantric “lines.” Or perhaps  something else entirely? I’m open to suggestions!

Update, March 28

Firstly, I’ve found an unaltered picture of the Amore Pacific shoot (and here’s one more):

yoon-eun-hyes-real-x-line-윤은혜-X라인

More importantly though, I really do want to stress that this Korean propensity to use (and abuse) English letters as symbols for body parts and body types really is much more than a mere language difference, and which has ultimately evolved into something far less benign. Take the following potting history of the ways in which S-lines have been used in advertisements for instance, starting with that for “Fiber-S-Beer” (source):

s-line-beer-s라인-맥주c-hourglass-figure

The logic being that the fiber will help you with your S-line, or rather to maintain it more easily than if you drink other beers. Yes, not a particularly well-thought out logic, but a logic nevertheless. As can be also said for this S-line body-lotion below too, but which I confess I’m not sure how is supposed to work exactly (source):

s-line-s라인-body-lotion

Both lame certainly, but with the clear message that if you use these you’ll get an S-line (and an “L-line”?). But don’t get me wrong: I’m not claiming that either are particularly evil, or the sentiments in them somehow unique to Korean advertisements.This next commercial however, makes a definite jump to the surreal (click on HQ for higher quality):

In case you’re confused, that was minor celebrity Hyeon Yeong (현영) advertising a gas boiler in 2007, and yes, I too am at a loss for the relationship between the internal workings of any boiler and any women’s body parts. For that reason, for a long time I thought that the commercial was a deliberate parody of the whole notion of S-lines, and to a certain extent it probably still is. But then writing this post prompted me take another, closer look, and suddenly I noticed many related advertisements for it like this (source):

hyeon-yeong-현영-s-line-boiler-advertisement

The uppermost Korean writing says “가스비 다이트,” or “gas bill diet.” Ahhh. Like you have to diet to get an S-line (supposedly: as I explain here, Koreans overwhelmingly favor passive methods of weight loss instead of exercise), then so is this boiler always on a diet so to speak, thereby reducing your gas bills. Which this next advertisement (source) reiterates:

hyeon-yeong-현영-s-line-condensing-boiler-advertisement

And herein lies the whole point of this follow up, for while the Korean media is saturated with the S-line phrase, in most cases it simply means…well…tits and ass, although technically speaking the English “a good figure” would probably be the closest in nuance (it’s not at all crass in Korean). In this boiler ad though, while the S-line being discussed clearly derives from that bodily meaning, it’s actually referring to something else really: the internal workings of the boiler. And while this might seem trivial, it signifies that the term S-line has become so well-known, such a common cultural meme, that it can now be used for things entirely unrelated to women’s bodies and still be understood.

At which point it becomes hypperreal, a concept I confess I find fascinating to be honest, but which even I’ll admit can be a little esoteric. Confining myself here to just some *cough* brief copying and pasting from the Wikipedia entry on the subject for those of you that may also be further interested then:

In semiotics and postmodern philosophy, the term hyperreality characterizes the inability of consciousness to distinguish reality from fantasy, especially in technologically advanced postmodern cultures. Hyperreality is a means to characterise the way consciousness defines what is actually “real” in a world where a multitude of media can radically shape and filter the original event or experience being depicted. Some famous theorists of hyperreality include Jean Baudrillard, Albert Borgmann, Daniel Boorstin, and Umberto Eco.

Most aspects of hyperreality can be thought of as “reality by proxy.” For example, a viewer watching pornography begins to live in the non-existent world of the pornography, and even though pornography is not an accurate depiction of sex, for the viewer, the reality of “sex” becomes something non-existent. Some examples are simpler: the McDonald’s “M” arches create a world with the promise of endless amounts of identical food, when in “reality” the “M” represents nothing, and the food produced is neither identical nor infinite.[1]

Baudrillard in particular suggests that the world we live in has been replaced by a copy world, where we seek simulated stimuli and nothing more. Baudrillard borrows, from Jorge Luis Borges (who already borrowed from Lewis Carroll), the example of a society whose cartographers create a map so detailed that it covers the very things it was designed to represent. When the empire declines, the map fades into the landscape and there is neither the representation nor the real remaining – just the hyperreal. Baudrillard’s idea of hyperreality was heavily influenced by phenomenology, semiotics, and Marshall McLuhan.

Hyperreality is significant as a paradigm to explain current cultural conditions. Consumerism, because of its reliance on sign exchange value (e.g. brand X shows that one is fashionable, car Y indicates one’s wealth), could be seen as a contributing factor in the creation of hyperreality or the hyperreal condition. Hyperreality tricks consciousness into detaching from any real emotional engagement, instead opting for artificial simulation, and endless reproductions of fundamentally empty appearance. Essentially, (although Baudrillard himself may balk at the use of this word) fulfillment or happiness is found through simulation and imitation of a transient simulacrum of reality, rather than any interaction with any “real” reality.

gay-s-line-school-uniform-advertisment-for-boys

And now back to plain English.Yes, sure, that boiler advertisement is indeed just one example, but if you think I’m making too much of it then please also consider these ones of advertisements for clothing company Smart’s (스마트) school uniforms below (sources: right, first and second, third, fourth). I should first point out though, that yes, those are indeed boys in most of them, and also, in case you’re surprised to find that there are advertisements for school uniforms here (and hence companies that make them and compete against each other), then please see #7 here for more information on the politics of the huge school uniform industry in Korea. To which I’d add is so intense that school uniform makers were recently discovered to have been offering alcohol, cigarettes and money to juvenile delinquents to pressure their “friends” to make purchases.

green-s-line-school-uniforms

s-line-gay-gym-uniforms

gay-clown-uniforms-for-korean-boys

oh-thank-god-theres-a-girl-gay-clown-uniforms-for-korean-boys

Yes, the company name “Smart” is a natural fit with “S-line,” and yes, that is indeed a girl with her S-line proudly on display in that last advertisement…but then, if you were a teenage boy, would you wear a uniform with a label that read “Great Tits and Ass”? Okay…granted, not a great example, for I too probably wouldn’t have minded at all come to think of it. Koreans generally avoid such blatantly sexual humor though, at least in public and/or in front of the opposite sex, so the term isn’t being exploited in a masculine, roguish sense here. Buf it not, then in what sense is it being used exactly?

And which leads me back to the point I made in the introduction to this post update, that ultimately using the term S-line isn’t as harmless and benign as it may first appear. For not only is it difficult for most women to get that fabled perfect S-line figure in practice, but the more ubiquitous and multi-faceted the ways in which the term is used in Korean-life, then the more Korean women feel compelled to chase some abstract, hyperreal ideal that increasingly isn’t even related to actual women’s bodies whatsoever. And in a nutshell, how the fuck does one do that? Of course it’s impossible, but in a society heavily divided along gender lines, where women’s low political and economic empowerment means that their appearances matter much more to their success than in the West, and where critical thinking skills are not encouraged, then hell, no wonder they’re so obsessed with their appearances.

On a quick final note, advertisers are in fact running out of letters with which to describe women though(!), so much so that they’ve started using the same ones again, but for different body parts. A “V-line” usually refers to a perfectly angled face for instance (see here again if you need to refresh your memory), but now it’s also being used for women’s breasts too. With Han Ye-seul (한예슬) for lingerie company Venus (비너스):

I could also go on to discuss how a women’s breasts are also(!) known as a “W-line” in Korea, but then I do have a reputation for brevity and conciseness to uphold!

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  1. kushibo said, on March 27, 2009 at 3:35 am

    Women with symmetrical, normal breasts who get augmentation? In the US it is approaching being normative, but not (yet) in Korea, and I wish that the media wouldn’t take already insecure women and give them one more reason to feel inadequate. Truth be told, whether on Americans or Koreans, I rarely find such cases attractive.

    I’m not a big fan of eyelid fold surgery, but far more invasive and risky breast enlargement seems to represent the most insecure of women. I wrote about it here, though a bit glibly and cruelly, describing a murder victim who herself was a killer who had subjected her child to medical experiments that were killing him, in exchange for cash:

    You see from other parts of the show that the young Korean mother (murder victim #2) is sort of hot. Thin—maybe too thin for someone who has had a kid—and crazy nutso. But hot. Though she’s lying on her back, you can see her breasts are still standing at attention, which is nearly a sure bet that they’re mercenaries. The moral of this episode is simple: never trust a Korean-born woman who gets a boob job. They’re nuts. I’m not kidding. Certifiable. If you don’t like ‘em small and natural, move along, brother. Move along.

    CSI has nailed the boob-job/nut-job connection.

    • B said, on May 24, 2010 at 2:27 pm

      may i ask, which episode was that? and original csi?

  2. [...] the rest here: Did Eve Have an S-line? Women as Walking Alphabets in South Korea … [...]

  3. scouse legend said, on March 27, 2009 at 9:19 am

    your blog is purely jarg. pretentious…no!

    • James Turnbull said, on March 27, 2009 at 9:50 am

      Scouse Legend: Feel free not to read it then.

      Kushibo: Yeah, neither has ever really appealed to me either. But while it is indeed sad that attractive and healthy women still somehow feel the need for cosmetic surgery, as someone who becomes irritable and lacking in self-confidence if I *cough* haven’t shaved my head in three days, then I can hardly belittle them for something that usually has instant and palpable effects on both their confidence and careers.

  4. kushibo said, on March 27, 2009 at 9:55 am

    scouse legend, quit your griping. Clearly this whole blog is all a cover intended to fool his wife after she found his huge digital stash of women’s pictures. ;)

  5. Alex said, on March 27, 2009 at 10:13 am

    “I read these magazines for my research, dear.”

    :)

    • James Turnbull said, on March 27, 2009 at 10:43 am

      They are indeed a pleasant topic to study, and one wonders why more men aren’t interested in researching women’s body images and the media? ^^; God knows why I chose to focus on evolving body ideals for Korean men as a thesis topic though…!

      But seriously, as I’ve often lamented, on the internet at least (much less so academia) the whole field does need a healthy dose of testosterone perspective sometimes:

      …It’s rather a lonely place being a man studying sexism and gender roles in advertising, as the vast majority of internet sources on the subject are written by women, and rather dogmatic feminist ones at that. Which is painting them with a rather broad brush, sure, so let me be more precise: “dogmatic” in the sense that many seem to go overboard and criticize virtually any use of women’s body parts in advertisements. Which I think is excessive, to say the least: breasts, for example, are an important secondary sexual characteristic that evolved into their current disproportionate size (for primates) precisely to gain the attention of males (see the second half of this post for the biological basis to that), but acknowledging this seems to be very much the elephant in the room for modern feminism, or at least this small but much-analyzed part of it. Or, to put it another way, there’s no use pretending that T&A haven’t always and won’t always be a core component of the way males judge female attractiveness, and so if we accept that sex is going to used in advertising then obviously both are going to feature pretty highly in them, particularly in advertisements aimed primarily at men.

      Don’t get me wrong: most of the time I heartily agree with most feminist critiques of certain advertisements, but I would still differ with this one for this advertisement for Chivas Regal whiskey on the right for instance (source), frequently mentioned by such sites, but which, like when I first saw it six years ago, I can’t help but find myself smiling at and heartily agreeing with the message in the text (click for the large version to read), although do I accept that it does contribute to the image of whiskey as “a man’s drink” that women can have problems with when they order it for themselves. Moreover, I don’t think that it demeans women, that liking it means that I consider my wife or any woman a sexual object rather than a thinking person, or that women that lack such a figure aren’t or can’t be sexy or attractive. Like a female friend with small breasts pointed out to me once, you just learn to live with the fact, just like I have to live with being bald, and I like to think that I can still be sexy despite that. Indeed, the two sexiest women I have ever known actually both happened to have small breasts, which, far from reflecting some fetish on my part, just goes to show that sexiness (from men or women) is ultimately about one’s attitude really….

      See that post itself for all the links and images I mention.

  6. nick said, on March 27, 2009 at 11:46 am

    Oddly at my middle school (co-ed country schools are fun) the answer to every social problem is ‘get plastic surgery’ Now at this school the students lunches are paid for by the school. Think extreme poverty, broken homes, special needs everything. Yet the students have figured out you can fix anything in Korea if you look good. However where are these poor girls going to get the money? Oh wait, in Korea there is one industry that is always hiring women from the country…

  7. kushibo said, on March 27, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Actually, eyelid surgery is extremely cheap, in the (low?) hundreds of thousands of won. It’s the nose jobs and breast enhancement that are expensive (I think).

  8. Bobby McGill said, on March 27, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    Last year when I was teaching high school I noticed that a good 10-15% of the girls had gotten an eye job. The tell-tale sign? They looked like they were on drugs, or a severe lack of sleep. There is now a line going across the eyelid that gives that impression.

    I had a dream around that same time, where I woke up, looked in the mirror and I had Korean eyes. I was quite handsome with that look and have had to talk myself out of an eye job several times since then. Much of the reason being my worry that Mylie Cyrus might mock me.

    Bobby McGill

  9. bravo said, on March 27, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    thank you.

    I teach at a Beauty School (their English ability is horribly low) and for the next few weeks I’m doing back to back to back lessons on describing people.

    You’ve made it easy for me to have a big stock of images of famous and beautiful Korean women in addition to my big stock of Western Stars pix.

    And thanks for a very simple explanation of all the letter lines.

    I find your site a little “academic” for my taste, but it’s enjoyable and I agree with just about everything you say.

  10. Charles Montgomery said, on March 27, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    Dude..

    when you busting out your good news?

  11. James Turnbull said, on March 27, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    Charles: When I have a link to it to give everyone, which will be tomorrow as far as I know.

    Update: And now Monday maybe? Grrr.

    Everybody else: My body’s just crashing after five days of screaming babies, writing, and severe sleep deprivation sorry, so I’ll respond properly in the morning tomorrow.

    • James Turnbull said, on March 28, 2009 at 1:57 pm

      Nick: I’d concur with Kushibo on the cheapness of double-eyelid surgery.

      Bravo: Thanks, but I don’t have that many pictures of Korean celebrities. If you’re really after images though, here’s 21.927 of an “S라인” and here’s 12,914 of a “v라인” for starters.

  12. Brian said, on March 29, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    I hate the abuse of English, and the abuse of English to describe body lines, but I’d like to point out the obnoxious “heart line” in a Kim Tae-hee ad on TV these days.

  13. huey said, on March 29, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    Man… where’s the big announcement?
    How do keep a fool in suspense?
    I’ll tell you tomorrow. lol

  14. James Turnbull said, on March 29, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    Huey: sorry for the delay.

  15. Sonagi said, on March 30, 2009 at 2:32 am

    We’ve long known that a small waist-to-hip ratio correlates positively with higher fertility and negatively with metabolic syndrome. I was surprised that large breasts correlate positively with fertility as large breasts can be a sign of pregnancy or recent childbirth. Pregnant or new mothers are obviously fertile but not at the moment. Large breasts are also matronly and associated with aging since women tend to get plump in middle age although this may not have been true in the past.

    The whole joke with plastic surgery is that it fools people’s senses into thinking they’re getting a better gene package.

    If men are universally hardwired to prefer women with small waist-to-hip ratios, then why did East Asian women evolve slim hips and the tendency to store fat around the abdomen rather than the buttocks and thighs and why did Koreans traditionally believe that women with slim hips and rounded bellies were more likely to bear sons?

    • James Turnbull said, on March 30, 2009 at 11:07 pm

      Sonagi: In hindsight, the point that large breasts correlate with higher fertility was more surprising than I gave it credit for. Given the late hour, my (still) bad cold, and the temptation to lapse into very related arguments about the evolution of large breasts as a secondary sexual characteristic, then I’ll have to look into that topic in more detail at a later date, but in the meantime I’d concur with the fact that they can actually be a turn-off.

      I should mention, though, that I do think that finding them attractive on non-pregnant or non-nursing women is instinctive, but on the other hand I think that professing a like for large ones regardless of if they belong to a pregnant or nursing mother is definitely cultural. While I won’t go so far as to say breast-feeding is disgusting (and I’d lose half of my readership if I did!), I’m not going to lie either, and will admit that I’d rather not see it when my wife does it (I look at something else) and to say the least find it quite a turn-off. Which is best for the baby and the mother of course, although not necessarily my libido.

      Anyway, my point is that the sudden and drastic contrast between finding virtually the same objects arousing or a turn-off is to mind too great to be merely a cultural phenomenon .

      If men are universally hardwired to prefer women with small waist-to-hip ratios, then why did East Asian women evolve slim hips and the tendency to store fat around the abdomen rather than the buttocks and thighs…

      That is the first I’ve heard of that, although that doesn’t necessarily mean I disagree; I’d be interested in hearing more before passing full judgment. My first reaction, though, is that certainly there are quite strong differences in the way different ethnic groups metabolize and store fat, and I’ve heard that Tongans (or is Samoans? Or all Pacific Islanders?) have a genetic tendency towards obesity for instance, but did East Asian women really “evolve” slim hips and so on? I’d argue that diet has had much more to do with that, and indeed Korean body types have dramatically changed with the improvement (and change) in diets in recent decades, with more hourglass figures appearing in particular (although that’s too fat for most Koreans of course!).

      …and why did Koreans traditionally believe that women with slim hips and rounded bellies were more likely to bear sons?

      Assuming that that is credible, then I still wouldn’t give much weight to it: to a large extent, traditions can simply be cherry-picked to support both our arguments. This rounded belly in this one though, might have more to do indicating a well-fed and healthy women, which of course would always trump instinctive preferences for hourglass figures.

  16. Charles Montgomery said, on March 30, 2009 at 9:23 am

    James, James, James… don’t make me go and post your ‘suprise’ over at Marmot’s!

    J/K

    • James Turnbull said, on March 30, 2009 at 9:32 am

      Dude, I was told it would be up on Saturday! Not only have I put my foot in my mouth by promising a big announcement then, but now I’m all nervous that someone dealing with it doesn’t like it or something, and that there won’t even be anything…(sigh)

  17. roboseyo said, on March 30, 2009 at 11:00 am

    Now I’m worried that it’ll be an anticlimax when it finally IS announced. My ex-girlfriend built that ferris bueller movie up so high that disappointment was inevitable when she finally got me to watch it. I was like, “People wrote Ph.D. theses on THIS?”

    • James Turnbull said, on March 30, 2009 at 11:08 am

      Hell, by this stage it’ll be disappointing to me too! Sigh. I’m thinking I’ll have to produce some other “exciting news” to compensate….

  18. Charles Montgomery said, on March 30, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Is it too soon for a third child?

  19. Charles Montgomery said, on March 30, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    ^
    |
    |
    |

    Ducking!

  20. Sonagi said, on March 31, 2009 at 6:25 am

    “but did East Asian women really “evolve” slim hips and so on? I’d argue that diet has had much more to do with that, and indeed Korean body types have dramatically changed with the improvement (and change) in diets in recent decades, with more hourglass figures appearing in particular (although that’s too fat for most Koreans of course!).”

    Korean women are getting heavier, but they are still proportionally different from a majority of white and black women. Korean women have narrow hip bones relative to Caucasians. I could never buy pants or skirts to fit in Korea, not because of my overall size (158 cm, 54 kg) but because of my proportions, which are typical for women of Western European ethnicity. Korean pants that fit in the waist were too small in the hips. Korean pants that fit in the hips were too large in the waist. The length from waist to crotch was too long and the inseam too short. Among white women, a small WTH ratio is the norm, and clothes sold in the US are proportioned for women like me. These women put on weight in the hips and thighs. A minority of white women have large WTH ratios with body shapes similar to East Asian women.

    “In hindsight, the point that large breasts correlate with higher fertility was more surprising than I gave it credit for. “

    I rethought that idea and realized that I had reversed the cause-effect. Women didn’t evolve large breasts because men like them, but rather, men came to like them because they are an indicator of fertility. Fat is metabolically active, and breast tissue has its own hormone receptors and producers. There is clearly a common factor between large breasts and the fertility hormone estradiol.

  21. [...] rapid cultural change, youth — extrakorea @ 10:55 am Somebody page The Grand Narrative. To S-lines, V-lines, heart-lines, and the rest of the alphabetical labels that we can attach to women for easy [...]

  22. [...] healthier, happier person. Usually this means if the product is meant for women it will give you an S-Line, if the product is meant for men it will improve your stamina. This has led me to try too many [...]

  23. eddyandreis said, on October 20, 2010 at 4:54 pm

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