Lessons about Korean ads from a Hong Kong woman
How cool is it that someone so young makes a video starting like this:
Now, I’ve been here [in Hong Kong] for about…3 and a half years…and I think that if you look at common stereotypes, and you look at the way women are portrayed in the media, there are basically 3 main categories of role models for young girls to look up to. I call them: the sex-object, the virgin baby-machine, and the [bitchy] career woman. And the thing is, I can’t help but feel that it doesn’t matter which category a woman finds herself falling into…cause they all suck! And no matter what she chooses, she just can’t win!
Without deriving from her arguments, many commenters at Sociological Images note that those categories are equally valid in many other developed countries. But as pointed out by Emma, some of the things she mentions are at least more pronounced in the Northeast-Asian region:
…there are a lot of similarities between gender dynamics in HK and many other places in the world, but I do feel the dictate of virtue/virginity is especially strong here, along with a notion of ‘cuteness’ which I do not really recognize from Europe. I would say that the ‘sex babe’ model is not really something you see played out that much in daily life – it’s mostly confined to celebrity culture…
…I also know women from Japan and Korea, who tell me it is still very difficult for many women to balance between having a career and being ‘the good wife’, meaning a modest and submissive mother who mainly spends her energy on the family and the home-sphere.
( Source: p. 13 of my copy of 살아있는 한국어 [한자성어] )
Focusing on Korea in this post, see here for the strength of that “dictate of virginity”, and here, here, and here for more on how a very gendered notion of cuteness pervades Korean popular culture (although it does also affect men to a certain extent).
I broadly concur with Emma’s description of the Korean concept of the “good wife” too, but I’d add that the specific Korean term for that – hyeonmo-yangcho (현모양처; literally “wise mother good wife”) – very much predates the notion of working women within the confines of a nuclear-family and capitalist system (it’s actually derived from Chinese characters), and consequently is much more antithetical to the notion of working mothers than she makes out. Despite that, it’s still very much used and espoused to by many Korean women today, and this is surely at least one factor in Korea having one of the lowest female workforce participation rates in the OECD.
Much more interesting for me personally given my own interests in advertising though, were her comments about slimming advertisements by langmo (literally teen models: see here, here, and here), which she discusses from 1:08-1:58 in her segment on “the sex object”:
If you’ve been to Hong Kong, then you probably know what I mean by “the sex object”. For example, if you go into any MTR station, or if you take the bus, or if you pick up any tabloid or magazine, then you’ve probably seen a ridiculous number of slimming-centric advertisements. Usually, these ads feature hot girls with really, really big boobs…probably not that different from slimming ads in your own country. But in my opinion, you know, slimming ads in Hong Kong are NOT just slimming ads. I mean, they don’t just like, lower your self-esteem by making you feel incredibly fat…but they also play a very big part in mainstreaming the sexual objectification of women. And this is especially so because they tied up with, like, the langmo, or like young model culture in Hong Kong.
And commenter Syd does a great job of putting those ads into context (source, right):
I will agree with what many people are saying when they mention that in general, it’s pretty much the same was in the US, UK, New Zealand, etc. However, without being very versed in Hong Kong culture, I can see that in her examples there are at least slight differences in the values espoused. Most noticeably the ‘slimming ads.’ Of course, we get bombarded with ads for diet pills, machines, techniques, and more in the US as well (any female with a facebook knows that), but there is a distinct difference between the ads she showed and the ads I see on my facebook sidebar or on daytime TV. I very rarely see an American diet ad that is ACTIVELY selling sex (Anna Nicole Smith’s old Trimspa ads exempt, and that could arguably just being a play on her raunchy public persona). Yes, the woman will likely be shown in a swimsuit, and the word ‘sexy’ may be used, but the imagery is overall different. In American ads, there are usually before and after pictures, and possibly more dynamic pictures if it is for exercise rather than diet (ex; a woman smiling and lifting weights), and most drastically, as the rest could be chalked up to aesthetic differences, the implication is that being thin will make you healthy and happy in addition to good-looking. Most American diet ads are also quite clearly aimed at women.
In comparison, the Hong Kong ads shown in the video:
…don’t actually look much of anything that reminds me of diets (of course, that is my media exposure as an American). The poses the model is in, the fact that the model seems to be similar to the UK’s glamour models (while American ads focus on either celebrities or ‘real life’ women), and the general composition of the posters reminds me more of advertisements I’ve seen for night clubs, gentlemen’s clubs, and blowout parties than advertisements selling a particular product, or perhaps those ads for women’s clothing that seem inexplicably aimed at men. The ads are selling the same products and the idea that ‘it’s good to lose weight and be thin,’ but there also seem to be different motivations behind WHY it’s good to be thin. While that doesn’t sound like it would make that big of a difference, personally, I think it’s interesting to see even these small differences.
I agree, but just how representative are those of Hong Kong slimming ads as a whole? Judging by the surprised reactions of numerous male bloggers to them (albeit without – grrr – providing decent quality and/or non-copyrighted examples), then I’d argue that they’re actually exceptional. And if so, then one mild of criticism GennieOnline was that it was misguided of her to build that categorization of female role models on so few examples.
But where on Syd’s continuum do Korean slimming ads lie? Just 2 minutes on Naver revealing them to be as diverse as the related products and services available themselves however, then let us consider ads that feature idealized, Romanized “lines” for women’s body shapes instead, as discussed here, here, here, here and here:
( Source )
By definition, the most popular of those lines – the S-line – is just as sexually-objectifying and designed for the male gaze as langmo ads are; after all, according to one blogger, the term literally means “ample breasts and buttocks when viewed from the side” in English, and I’d be lying if I pretended that I can think of anything else when I see that screenshot of Go A-ra (고아라) above. Indeed, I’d argue that the cruder “tits and ass” would be a much more appropriate term given the tabloidish contexts in which it is usually referred to too.
But ads that “remind [you] more of advertisements for night clubs, gentlemen’s clubs, and blowout parties than advertisements selling a particular product, or perhaps those ads for women’s clothing that seem inexplicably aimed at men” S-line ads definitely are not. Instead, they seem overwhelmingly marketed towards women, albeit with the fact that women should aspire to have a (male-gaze driven) S-line taken as a given, the video commercial below being a good – and probably surprising – example of that:
( Source )
Granted, of course male viewers are also affected by such ads, and consequently be more likely to also judge women’s body shapes in such terms. But when you switch on the TV and see scores of women literally personally encouraging us to do so (see comment #21), for reasons explained here and here, then I’d argue that in Korea at least, popular culture is at least if not more repsonsible for that than advertising.
Moreover, that these ads are designed for female audiences seems even truer for ads for products associated with the plethora of other lines too, which is no great surprise seeing as they have no basis whatsoever in men’s biologically-driven female body preferences. Which by coincidence, was indirectly demonstrated to me by my male students just this week, fully half of whom mentioned an S-line in response to the inane question of “What do you think your date should look like” that was in their final oral test (even though I’d specifically told them not to use Korean, and to demonstrate to me that they’d learned the English words I’d taught them). In contrast, not a single one mentioned any other lines.
And finally, there’s the commercial origins of all the lines in the first place, which make this even clearer. For instance, as I mentioned in my presentation at Wellesley College last month, from which the following series of images was taken, one is the V-line for one’s face:
( Source )
But then here’s another contender for the term, appropriately enough from the Venus (비너스) lingerie company:
( Source )
In addition to both of those, pay particular attention to the Y-line and M-line in the diagram below:
( Source: unknown )
As while you can see that that particular Y-line appears to be something to do with the back, apparently there’s another which appears to be something to do with the neck:
( Source: unknown )
And yet there’s still one more, for a by now very familiar part of the body, and explicitly in competition with Venus. No great surprise as to the first letter of the company promoting this use of the term:
( Source: unknown )
Let’s not forget W Korea Magazine and its promotion of the W-line either:
( Source: unknown )
Albeit strictly speaking, W Korea didn’t invent that particular term itself, and it was more likely the creation of this chain of cosmetic surgery clinics in Busan:
( Source: unknown )
And finally, you may recall that the M-line was originally for men. So what’s this below?
( Source: unknown )
In that case, I’d argue that the M-line for men has been superseded by the the new buzzword “chocolate abs” (초콜릿복근), as discussed here. and I could (and did) go on with many many more examples, but I’m sure you get the point: all of these lines are clearly being created entirely for the sake of selling products that will supposedly help you attain them. And with the vast majority of the lines being for women’s bodies, then like I said, naturally women are overwhelmingly the target audience for them.
Of course, I’m sure that most of you knew that well before reading this post. But hopefully, it does make the possibility that such ads are actually being aimed more and more at men over time more interesting. And which ironically, is a trend I only noticed after seeing this ad for MBody Diet and Slimming Center (엠바디 다이어트 & 슬리밍) on the subway last week, even though it probably isn’t actually aimed at men:
Blame this post on that ad: I was struck by the model’s expression, which I found somehow lifeless, cynical, and jaded all at the same time, as if she was well aware that nobody would be focusing on her face. True, that may have been reading too much into it, and an image below from the website shows that she was rather more lifelike than she originally appeared.
But in combination with the wooden way in which she’s standing in order to show off her S-line – breasts thrust out like a figurine on the front of a ship (like Go A-ra); buttocks thrust back; the hip-pop; the “bashful knee bend“; and so on, then to me she appears almost as a caricature of herself, eerily reminiscent of children’s pictures of people created by cutting and pasting body parts of people from different magazines together.
With that frame of mind, then I’m sure you can appreciate why a comment by reader “sunwritesthings” received shortly after would really strike a chord with me:
…The V-line, S-line (and so forth) phenomenon is in fact very similar to what we call fragmentation of the female body in the American pop culture. In music videos, you’ll often find that the camera will focus only on certain parts of the female bodies, showing only the “objects” of interest of the viewer (assumed to be young males) rather than people. By focusing only on the line that the torso and the lower body creates, rather than the body as a whole, they’re sending the message that this female body does not need anything other than sexual attention.
Granted, I may simply be latching onto the term “fragmentation”, very apt for what I’m describing. But either way, I have been seeing more and more ads like it recently, although in fact it may already been going on for some time:
( “passing by” by David Smeaton; reproduced with permission )
And in particular ,it is epitomized by actress Lee Chae-young (이채영) on the right below, whose recent ads for AppleHip Korea seem more worthy of Maxim than anything women might actually be interested in. See galleries by the advertisement photographer here to see what I mean, particularly this one.
( Sources: left; right unknown )
And on that note, I both praise and silently curse GennieOnline for ruined my posting schedule and making me think so much this week, and throw the floor open to readers’ own thoughts on the target audience(s) of Korean slimming ads, on how they make you feel, and if and how you also think they’ve been changing. And please: with my own conclusion being such a speculation, then don’t feel inhibited from making your own!^^
thanks for posting this video & your comments.
small point– I don’t think Gennie is a teenager as she mentioned toward the last third of this video that “if she had not dropped out of law school,” she could be expected to be rewarded in a high powered law career where she was bored to death drafting contracts all day. i assume if she dropped out of law school, she is in her early 20s. did i mishear that?
Nope: I missed that. Thanks for pointing my mistake out then, although I confess that now I’m at a bit of a loss now for an appropriate post title. Unfortunately, “Lessons about Korean ads from a Hong Kong woman in her early-twenties” doesn’t really have quite the same ring to it…
“Lessons about Korean ads from a Hong Kong woman”
That title would suffice.
The main point is that you need to change the title and part of the post where you refer to Gennie as a teenager.
It’s not enough to attach an question mark (?) as you did e.g. [But that sounds a little picky of me to criticize a high-school student(?)]
I do not think anyone that has commented to point out your small mistake are trying to be mean to you, but you do need to make the change since it’s a very conspicuous oversight (and obviously distracts from your main thesis).
Thank you for your comment berdecinismo, but I’m well aware what “the main point” is, and I think you’re placing excessive weight on the issue of the title, and misanalyzing it at that. For instance, I don’t recall insinuating that anyone was “trying to be mean to [me]“; for the reasons I explain here, I don’t think “it’s a very conspicuous oversight” – quite the contrary, I think the vast majority of people would be completely unaware of it unless they read the comments; I don’t think it “obviously detracts from [my] main thesis” seeing as her video is really just a starting point for my own ideas, which renders both our titles quite misleading really (I admit I chose the one I did to get people’s attention); and the question mark attached to “high-school student” in the part you quote was meant to indicate that I didn’t know if she was a high-school student or not, although I certainly still thought she was a teenager when I wrote it.
If I’d realized she wasn’t while writing then I would have changed the title and so on, but as I’d have to rewrite some of the post and add notes to some of the comments above and below now then frankly I don’t feel at all motivated, especially as I don’t really think it’s as big of a deal as you make out. But thanks for the suggestion though.
I noticed it too because I also remember her saying she dropped out of law school. Anyway I think it’s not a huge issue but would be a beneficial correction. A person wouldn’t want to be referred to as a teenager when they are in fact not one.
Okay, the readers have spoken!
But it’ll have to wait until tomorrow though sorry, because I’m about to head out to a friend’s place.
Done!
James,
Thank you for your response.
I’m just surprised by your response to this point.
I wrote my comment after reading the comments left on this post and it seemed to me that in your responses to the comments pointing out the age mistake you were upset that people would get so hung up about her age. So that’s where my comment about people not trying to be mean/rude to you came from.
Also, it seemed to me that people were distracted from the main thesis, since her age was one of the main things that was highlighted/discussed in the comment section. From my reading of the comments I concluded that the age mistake was distracting from the main thesis.
On a final note, the way you responded to namhanman, grace and myself, it just seemed to me like you were brushing us aside as pesky meanies. . .
At any rate, keep on blogging~
hate to belabor this as this has become a long digression, but i didn’t feel “brushed aside as a pesky meanie.” actually james said thanks for pointing out the mistake.
Berdecinismo,
I do accept your point now that the age issue is distracting. But otherwise, I think you’ve been misinterpreting and miscommunicating some things because you’re not a native speaker.
I mean no offense by that: for the sake of making them better speakers and them avoiding such misunderstandings in the future, I say to and discuss such things with advanced students of English all the time. And unfortunately things as subtle as I’m about to describe can sometimes take years of practice to master, no matter what the language.
Like Grace said (and thanks for that btw!), nobody felt like they were being brushed aside, nor did I feel like people were being mean or rude to me. I acknowledged their comments and thanked them, but also expressed some frustration about the hassle involved in making the necessary changes.
But your comment did anger me a little, because telling me what “would suffice” and what “the main point is” implies that I’m unaware of either, which is rather patronizing. But in particular, saying that “it’s not enough to…as you did”, and especially, “that [I] do need to make the change”, would be bad enough coming from one’s Phd supervisor, let alone someone who’s never commented on the blog before.
But if you’d said instead, that you, for example, “don’t mean to be rude, but [you] don’t think it’s enough…”, and that “[you]” recommend that [I] make the change”, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation now.
Seriously, without those, then reading your original comment felt much like suddenly being ordered around by a complete stranger, with no authority to do so. As if i was sitting on the train happily reading a book for instance, and then someone the same age as me suddenly started criticizing the way I dressed and telling me what I should wear.
Please, I don’t mean to scare you away from commenting again! But to avoid such misunderstandings in future, with me or on any other English speakers, then I really do recommend you learn more about how to be polite in English.
James,
Thank you for your thoughtful responses to my (apparently rude ☹) comments.
I will make sure to follow proper blog protocol and establish my presence before providing any criticism. I will also make sure to always do a double take on my tone and ensure that I sound as pleasing as possible, since the online component can obscure the intended delivery and reception of a message.
I will admit that “I” felt frustrated by your disposition towards this point, since, as you have already stated elsewhere, you saw this more as a hassle than a legitimate point. You seeing this as a hassle made it seemed as if you were brushing aside the concerns about Gennie’s age.
In my interpretation, it just seemed as if you did not understand why it would bother anyone that a mistake was made about a woman’s age in which she was made out to be a minor.
Maybe you are right James, I may have read too much into it.
For me, what come to mind when reading the first part of your blog entry was that this was another case of female infantilization in which a woman and her thoughts (opinions, and experiences) are disregarded and/or reduced to mindless musings. It bothered me especially coming from someone like you, who has dedicated so much time and effort into exploring issues related to gender.
But, alas, I was (terrible) wrong.
It is your blog and it is up to you what changes, if any, you make to your blogs.
I thank you again for your (kind) patience when dealing with my “misinterpretations” and “miscommunications.”
Oh, on a final note, I have to correct your assumptions of my language abilities (of which apparently I am still lacking). I am a native English speaker (from the big ol’ US of A). It is just the case that I was thoughtless/careless in my comments to your blog, so apologies for that.
Sigh.
My bad for confusing you with Namhanman, who links to his own non-English blog in his name in his comment. But my last comment was a genuine attempt to give advice to someone whom I thought wasn’t a native speaker, and certainly doesn’t deserve what sounds like your sarcasm.
There is no “proper blog protocol” to follow, no need to “sound as pleasing as possible” (which is not quite the same as being polite), nor any need to “establish [your] presence before providing any criticism”. First time commenters do the latter all the time, and so long as they’re polite then I welcome the discussion, although I don’t have to agree with them of course. If their criticisms are valid though, then I always acknowledge that, and usually make any changes they recommend. They do not however, demand that I make those changes, and I don’t think I’d be the only one in interpreting your original comment that way, however unintended.
If you’re provided the reasons you have above then it would have helped, but seriously: if you just added a couple of words here and there, then it would have worked wonders.
Feel free to reply, but after several hundred words on a 7 line comment then I’m afraid I’m more than done with the subject myself!
also, i don’t know if she coined the phrase but i absolutely love “virgin baby machine.” she hit it right on.
In another one of her videos, which recaps her “awkward teenage years”, she mentions that she’s 22. She’s not a teenager :)
Great post, as always, Mr. Turnbull, but I believe you are a bit too naive if you thought she is a teenager after watching her highly intelligent and insightful vlog. By the way, she can speak 4 languages, just check out her multi-lingual video.
Well, in fairness she does make the video in a bedroom full of stuffed animals; she later wears Pikachu pajamas and pretends to be…er…it; she looks (and to a certain extent) talks like a teenager; and I’m by no means the only one to have thought she was one. So I think that describing me as “a bit too naive” is a little harsh(!), but no problem, especially as you’re not a native speaker.
p.s. Please just call me “James” by the way: “Mr Turnbull” sounds rather too formal for the way I write on this blog!^^
codename soi,
When Gennie mentioned she was 22 it was in context to a 16 year old trying to hit on her… hahahaha!
Yes, a lot of Asian women look pretty young in their early 20′s. Aging happens all at once for most Asians.
That last is a bit of a generalization, but I have to admit that I often made the same observation when I first arrived here 10 years ago. Back then, I thought it really hit people in their early-30s, but, thinking about it for the first time in about 5 years, I’m not so sure it’s really true.
Most people in Hong Kong are multi-lingual. English is the language of business there. Cantonese is the main language and Mandarin is the language of the mainland.
On a tangentially related note, Jane Fonda has just made a new workout video for older women. In the video stills, her waist and hips looked a little thinner than how I recall her looking in media photos. She is not overweight, but other recent photos revealed a thickened midsection that is common for postmenopausal women, whose fat storage pattern becomes more masculine, distributing any excess fat in the waist and abdomen, rather than the lower hips, buttocks, and thighs. I thought about the body shape editing software program mentioned in a recent thread and wondered if Jane’s proportions were modified with a few clicks. She’s had plastic surgery on her face and had implants taken out, but neither of these would detract from her image as a positive body role model with a fit and trim figure. Video editing her shape in an exercise video is dishonest. Why bother using Jane Fonda at all if it’s not really her body as it actually looks? One commenter on a thread about the video noted that Jane is naturally tall and lanky like her father and so her figure is mostly good genes. Well, it’s true that Jane is genetically blessed, but nevertheless, it’s very hard for even naturally slim women to maintain a small waist past menopause. It makes me a little angry to think of older women aspiring to an impossibly slender, fertile figure that even Jane herself does not have.
Sorry, but having just had 4 Black Russians, and my first alcohol in 3 months at that, then I’m much too drunk to respond properly now sorry!
That goes for you too Tiffani, although really I’d be much too embarrassed anyway…
Now to embarrass myself further on Facebook…hic!…
Hey James, I just want to let you know, if I haven’t said it before -
Yours is one of the most insightful, useful, and interesting blogs I’ve ever read. And I read some quality material, so that’s saying a lot. Everything from the topics you choose to your interpretations to your writing style is just perfection, and I especially love your humility and the fact that you check your privilege. You’re not immune to making mistakes – no one is – but because you’re willing to acknowledge that possibility, I consider you an invaluable and trustworthy resource.
I like the idea of the fragmentation of the female body involving the ‘roman letter’-lines. Every time my students say S-line – even in the context of “Teacher, you have beautiful S-line!” – it makes me shudder, and I think you’ve pinpointed why. If you’re going to compliment me on my looks, could it at least be something more creative than, “Wow you have boobs and a butt!”?
I just wonder if these things are ever going to change, especially with women – including me – being so complicit in promoting the narrative. It doesn’t matter how strongly I believe in the tenets of feminism, when someone compliments me for adhering to the traditionally-appreciated values of femininity (appearance-wise especially) it’s difficult for me not to feel validated. Siiiigh.
More posts like this can do nothing but help. ^^
Agreed. :)
But I think it’s ok to feel validated when complimented on your looks. I think both genders feel validated when they are complimented on their looks – it’s just that straight men don’t get them that much because women usually don’t grow up in a culture that frequently validates and caters to female desire. (Only the desire to be looked upon, not the desire to look)
Strangely, I came across this video a week ago. I sent it to my little bro’s Hongky wife, and she apparently thought it was “insulting to Hongky women”. Yes, she is extremely touchy. From memory, there have been 4-5k more people who have watched it in the last week.
Personally I thought it was well thought out and interesting. And she didn’t even go into the skin whitening commercials, diet pills/drinks, exercise equipment ads and all that.
To me, the really interesting part of her vlog is where she gets into the career woman bit, and I suspect it is for a lot of the female readers as well, as I feel like it’s more actively applies to the decisions we’re forced to make on a daily basis. It’s easier for me, and a lot of the women I know, to shove off the body image stuff. But having to “decide” between having a career OR having a love/family life is something you can’t really just ignore.
When I was working as an ESL tutor at an arts/design university in NYC, this was something my students (mostly Korean women getting close to/over the age of 30) would go on about endlessly — about how they had to find a way to get on with a gallery or company in the States, because if they returned to Korea one of two things would happen: 1. Their families would expect that they’d finally ‘come back home’, in the sense that they’d given up their wayward ‘phase’ of having a career and were ready to marry nice Korean men and be nice Korean mothers or 2. They would have to work at a Korean company, where they would be subjugated to minor positions and lower pay while the company used their talent and labor, and waited for them to get married and pregnant and fuck off out of the business hierarchy before they worked their way up to a position of leadership or power.
Or they’d just have to piss everyone off, give up on the idea of getting married entirely, and go for the career.
In a way, I was in NYC for the same reasons. Because in New York, it seems a woman has the option more readily available of having both, just as a man does. In my hometown, by the age of 22, I was already one of the last unmarrieds standing from my high school, and my family is still waiting for me to ‘come back home’, work an undemanding job at a local school, get married and be a mother. The only other three girls I know from my high school who are all still unmarried and career-oriented are also all three living abroad now for much the same reasons.
I love her “virgin-babymachine” terminology, its just like the “innocent-glamour” Korean women are into. I’m about to go to Seoul to learn Korean and although I love the culture and have had a great time there, the more I read your blog the more I wonder if I will feel comfortable being a normal sized caucasian (to western standards). I’m in the Philippines right now, where Im already considered big, but people seem a lot more judgmental in Korea.
I did a presentation on Korean beauty a few months ago for my Korean Club and just published a first excerpt on my blog, would love to get your feedback!
http://www.caviarcreme.com/korean-beauty-series-evolution-cultural-beauty-standards/154
Thanks for passing that on, and I’ll try to look this weekend. Busy final week here at my university unfortunately!
[...] or anything else that gives them any depth of character. It’s all superficial, all about S-lines, V-lines, “chocolate abs,” and the like. Recall that Krystal, a member of the girl [...]